Meat, aka Hah! I knew it!
Feb. 6th, 2008 10:07 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
lonelybritNon-spoilery review: T'was good, less of a team dynamic than I like, but the implications for all were very nicely done and the ending left me very very happy, my heart may be mildly bruised, but I'm loving this feeling nevertheless :)
So there was some small plot about an extra-terrestrial beached whale. I'm sure I was moved, but actually I was rather more interested in what the case revealed about the relationships within, and without, of Torchwood. And since this ep was basically a run-down of the ships of the series, let's handle it that way.
Owen/Tosh - this did suffer a bit from the old problem of continuity. I thought the end point worked, with Tosh offering comfort and Owen accepting it desperately. And I liked that Tosh had now grown in confidence enough to make a strong play for Owen, something in the past she would never have done. Good on her, even if I did think she was a bit too puppy eyed and disappointed when last week she had been so strong, but this is a matter of the heart so que sera. However at the beginning, Owen seemed to have regressed to his personality pre-TTLM. By the end he had progressed, but initially there was a bit too much old-school S1 Owen. Still, in conclusion, yes, Owen/Tosh is definitely starting to look more likely. In which case I predict Owen is DOOMED as Tosh is the black widow of the TW fandom.
Gwen/Rhys - ♥♥♥ Fantastic acting from both Eve and Kai. The shouting match between them was great and as a viewer it was something I needed to see and hear. I was with Rhys to begin with, and my heart went out to him when he pointed out they were crumbling, and then Gwen sealed her place in my heart by rising to the challenge and listening to him. That is love, as Gwen pointed out to Torchwood at the end, that is real love. It's never perfect, you can fight like anything, but if it's right you will knuckle down and work through it. And oh but it was wonderful to see her and Rhys do just that. Crossing fingers and toes they'll remain this strong for the rest of the series and he doesn't bite the dust. I was genuinely worried at the end when she had the Retcon, I could have seen her giving it to him because she wanted to protect him, and equally I was over the moon when she told Jack that, yes, if it came down to it he could take Torchwood and stuff it where the sun don't shine.
Does she love Jack? Yes, of course, who in Torchwood doesn't. BUT, I thought it was telling her comment of "So, you do have a heart" to Jack at the beginning. She loves him, but he is the fantasy, unlike others *cough*Ianto*cough* she recognises that it's unlikely he can ever really give her what she wants, i.e. someone to always come home to.
What was also painfully obvious was that Gwen/Rhys this week was the example of a healthy relationship between equals, whereas running in parallel was...
Jack/Ianto - and yes I will go 'Hah! I knew it!' *sniffle* So, what was the purpose of that shoe-horned in kiss last week? Yes it was, surprise surprise, the warning that the shit was about to hit the fans and the honeymoon period was about to be officially over.
Now unfortunately, I was watching the ep at the grandparents, and as always happens with the family, loud conversation broke out around the crucial final fight scene. So I might have misheard but when Ianto went down it sounded to me like he called 'Jack!', but I could have been mistaken. What I was clear on was how Jack - and what else would you expect from a Torchwood leader - never wavered from the overall mission, simply noted Ianto was not dead yet, and promptly ordered him after the escaping bloke with a gun.
Do I understand Jack's notable lack of concern for Ianto in comparison to Gwen's constant fear for Rhys? Yep, of course I do. I think I can also understand how he seems more worried about losing Gwen than spending any time checking Ianto is okay - Ianto is already part of Torchwood, he isn't going anywhere/hasn't anywhere to go to. Gwen got very close to walking away, and she is Jack's conscience, helps him stay connected to this world and he knows it. Plus of course he loves her. Take her away and what does that leave him (and by default, what would that leave the others).
However, equally I can understand why Ianto seemed a tad cold by the end. Regardless of office dates and moments of honesty, this ep showed him very clearly what he does not have and probably never will do. There just isn't room for pure romance like Gwen/Rhys when both of you are dedicated to Torchwood. However much Ianto has told himself that he accepts/understands this, when the crunch came, he clearly was momentarily hurt that Jack did chose the mission over any personal concerns.
Threaten Rhys and Gwen instinctively reacts - Jack does what's right for the team and stays hidden. Potentially wound Rhys and Gwen couldn't give a flying fiddler's fart what is going on in the warehouse, she's only interested in holding Rhys and making sure he'll be okay - Jack never spares a glance or words of reassurance, assumes Ianto can handle himself, and his only words are orders as suit the situation. Ask Gwen to effectively chose Torchwood or Rhys, Gwen chooses Rhys and you could tell her reasons for doing so resound with all of the team. It's a life they'll never really know.
So, do I think it's a nail in the coffin of Jack/Ianto? Pffft, please. But it is a reality check for both. If it's right, they'll work through it and Ianto will have to really accept and be able to live with the potential ramifications of having a relationship with a work colleague. Knowing what is the right thing to do, and genuinely feeling it is the right thing when it's done are two different things. If they can't work through it, well then they won't and that's that. But I think there's more to this tale yet.
And a final note. Haven't the foggiest idea what Ianto said to the guy on the floor (thank you great-aunt discussing errant sons), but for an instant he did look believably cold and threatening. Which again, I take as a sign for what the trailers are promising for next week.
*rubs hands* Bring on the angst and emo!pain for all, wheee!
So there was some small plot about an extra-terrestrial beached whale. I'm sure I was moved, but actually I was rather more interested in what the case revealed about the relationships within, and without, of Torchwood. And since this ep was basically a run-down of the ships of the series, let's handle it that way.
Owen/Tosh - this did suffer a bit from the old problem of continuity. I thought the end point worked, with Tosh offering comfort and Owen accepting it desperately. And I liked that Tosh had now grown in confidence enough to make a strong play for Owen, something in the past she would never have done. Good on her, even if I did think she was a bit too puppy eyed and disappointed when last week she had been so strong, but this is a matter of the heart so que sera. However at the beginning, Owen seemed to have regressed to his personality pre-TTLM. By the end he had progressed, but initially there was a bit too much old-school S1 Owen. Still, in conclusion, yes, Owen/Tosh is definitely starting to look more likely. In which case I predict Owen is DOOMED as Tosh is the black widow of the TW fandom.
Gwen/Rhys - ♥♥♥ Fantastic acting from both Eve and Kai. The shouting match between them was great and as a viewer it was something I needed to see and hear. I was with Rhys to begin with, and my heart went out to him when he pointed out they were crumbling, and then Gwen sealed her place in my heart by rising to the challenge and listening to him. That is love, as Gwen pointed out to Torchwood at the end, that is real love. It's never perfect, you can fight like anything, but if it's right you will knuckle down and work through it. And oh but it was wonderful to see her and Rhys do just that. Crossing fingers and toes they'll remain this strong for the rest of the series and he doesn't bite the dust. I was genuinely worried at the end when she had the Retcon, I could have seen her giving it to him because she wanted to protect him, and equally I was over the moon when she told Jack that, yes, if it came down to it he could take Torchwood and stuff it where the sun don't shine.
Does she love Jack? Yes, of course, who in Torchwood doesn't. BUT, I thought it was telling her comment of "So, you do have a heart" to Jack at the beginning. She loves him, but he is the fantasy, unlike others *cough*Ianto*cough* she recognises that it's unlikely he can ever really give her what she wants, i.e. someone to always come home to.
What was also painfully obvious was that Gwen/Rhys this week was the example of a healthy relationship between equals, whereas running in parallel was...
Jack/Ianto - and yes I will go 'Hah! I knew it!' *sniffle* So, what was the purpose of that shoe-horned in kiss last week? Yes it was, surprise surprise, the warning that the shit was about to hit the fans and the honeymoon period was about to be officially over.
Now unfortunately, I was watching the ep at the grandparents, and as always happens with the family, loud conversation broke out around the crucial final fight scene. So I might have misheard but when Ianto went down it sounded to me like he called 'Jack!', but I could have been mistaken. What I was clear on was how Jack - and what else would you expect from a Torchwood leader - never wavered from the overall mission, simply noted Ianto was not dead yet, and promptly ordered him after the escaping bloke with a gun.
Do I understand Jack's notable lack of concern for Ianto in comparison to Gwen's constant fear for Rhys? Yep, of course I do. I think I can also understand how he seems more worried about losing Gwen than spending any time checking Ianto is okay - Ianto is already part of Torchwood, he isn't going anywhere/hasn't anywhere to go to. Gwen got very close to walking away, and she is Jack's conscience, helps him stay connected to this world and he knows it. Plus of course he loves her. Take her away and what does that leave him (and by default, what would that leave the others).
However, equally I can understand why Ianto seemed a tad cold by the end. Regardless of office dates and moments of honesty, this ep showed him very clearly what he does not have and probably never will do. There just isn't room for pure romance like Gwen/Rhys when both of you are dedicated to Torchwood. However much Ianto has told himself that he accepts/understands this, when the crunch came, he clearly was momentarily hurt that Jack did chose the mission over any personal concerns.
Threaten Rhys and Gwen instinctively reacts - Jack does what's right for the team and stays hidden. Potentially wound Rhys and Gwen couldn't give a flying fiddler's fart what is going on in the warehouse, she's only interested in holding Rhys and making sure he'll be okay - Jack never spares a glance or words of reassurance, assumes Ianto can handle himself, and his only words are orders as suit the situation. Ask Gwen to effectively chose Torchwood or Rhys, Gwen chooses Rhys and you could tell her reasons for doing so resound with all of the team. It's a life they'll never really know.
So, do I think it's a nail in the coffin of Jack/Ianto? Pffft, please. But it is a reality check for both. If it's right, they'll work through it and Ianto will have to really accept and be able to live with the potential ramifications of having a relationship with a work colleague. Knowing what is the right thing to do, and genuinely feeling it is the right thing when it's done are two different things. If they can't work through it, well then they won't and that's that. But I think there's more to this tale yet.
And a final note. Haven't the foggiest idea what Ianto said to the guy on the floor (thank you great-aunt discussing errant sons), but for an instant he did look believably cold and threatening. Which again, I take as a sign for what the trailers are promising for next week.
*rubs hands* Bring on the angst and emo!pain for all, wheee!
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no subject
Date: 2008-02-06 11:23 pm (UTC)"Pray you live", I think?
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Date: 2008-02-07 12:26 am (UTC)Which I suppose it would be, given he had left them all about to get squidged unless Owen could quickly come up with a solution. Nothing like Ianto threatening those who threaten his team to keep me content :)
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Date: 2008-02-06 11:30 pm (UTC)I agree with everything you say. I want to write you a good sensible reply but I feel a bit emotionally drained / verklempt at this point, and I may just have to go rewatch and feel... excatly the same, by the end.
I agree that Eve and Kai absolutely hit the mark, I believed unconditionally in them and what they felt, warts and all. Neither of them pretends the other is anything like perfect, and they'll admit as much instead of the usual "darling you look wonderful" dishonest white lies that supposedly glue relationships together.
And Jack covets, craves that - maybe he even believs that, if Gwen were his in the way that she's Rhys's, he would get that depth of absolute, world-breaking love. Right now, I don't think Jack's going to be able to learn and grow, not in the lifetime of this team at any rate. I feel unhappy, because I took him at face value at the start of the season - as, I guess, Ianto did and as we were as an audience supposed to do - and there should have been caveats built into it all, or at least I (Ianto, the audience) shouldn't have lost sight of two essential things about Jack - that he puts the delivery of Torchwood's agenda above almost anything, and that the capacity to build and keep a sincere relationship between himself and another, as equally co-dependent - as Gwen and Rhys do - isn't something we have any evidence he can actually do. The Doctor's spaniel, sure, or John's sex partner in five years of unbridled shagging, or the wartime romance with Estelle that he never had the courage to be honest and come back to... Anything better than that? Don't know.
I think this show is going to break me worse than before, now that I know that ianto really does want more than the recreational fucking, and right now I'm not sure he's going to get that, not sure that he realises he won't, either. WOEZ!
no subject
Date: 2008-02-07 12:48 am (UTC)My initial reading of Gwen/Jack from series 1 was that yes, obviously Jack loves Gwen, but part of why he loves her is that she is as close as he can get to living a 'normal' 21st century life. It's like he's being able to live the fairy tale romance through her. But what he obviously was taken aback by, was that this 'fairy tale' could actually wind up being the thing that drove her away from him. As it did in this. He wants to see and believe in the unconditional love, but when he does he's in the role of the obstacle, with Gwen telling him she'll leave if she has to.
I did, and still do, believe that Jack wants to be serious with Ianto. It's just the small but hugely important detail that Ianto is Torchwood, but Rhys isn't. Gwen is fighting against the odds to keep things right with Rhys. Rhys, by going along with her and TW, is making a huge sacrifice. Ianto, by obeying Jack's orders, is doing his job. The same rules and expectations are simply irrelevant when both partners have signed up for the same job: no matter how much Jack may want to try and fit his and Ianto's relationship into the traditional 21st century mould, it ain't gonna fit.
Which in part, again, explains why Jack was so upset with Gwen. She's meant to be the link and proof that Torchwood and normal life can co-exist if you will. She threw it back in his face with the 'No you don't. None of you do.' Her life will never be theirs.
Obviously Ianto does want more than just recreational fucking, and I still think that whilst what he does have isn't like Gwen and Rhys, it is still important. It's just, well, how many 'serious' relationships have we seen in Torchwood? We know what the ordinary world expects. But in the Hub? I think both he and Jack need to realise this, accept what they can offer each other, and if possible work on that. At the end of the day, just because it's different doesn't mean it's not equally as valid and important as the more commonplace wedding bells and 2.4 children :)
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Date: 2008-02-07 02:53 am (UTC)exactly! none of this means that Ianto doesn't matter to Jack.
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Date: 2008-02-07 01:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-02-07 01:36 am (UTC)Utterly agree on the solider part. Although on rewatching, there was a moment when Jack did look upset that he couldn't just take out the guy tussling with Ianto, although it also have been upset that one of the hostage takers had already gotten away. In any case, whilst personally I would have liked to have seen a bit of a reaction when Ianto was taken hostage, I can't say I'm surprised there wasn't. As you say, Jack is an old hand at this, and actually the best way to protect Ianto is to play the classic Bond line: 'Okay, fine, go ahead, kill him, he means nothing to me' ;)
I'm not sure how to describe Ianto's reactions to Jack's actions other than upset, although I agree 'upset' seems a bit too much. Irked? Exasperated? I think like me, he wasn't really expecting anything more than what he got. But the was GDL played it, I think Ianto would have appreciated at least one word or look of reassurance, though I don't think he held it against Jack by the end of the ep. I do think both of them got a reality check in that they realised the traditional rules of romance that Gwen and Rhys can - with a bit of a fight - play by, simply don't apply when you're both working for Torchwood. The honeymoon period is over.
I see your point about Jack. After all, it was her and Ianto and the rest of the team that kept him fighting to come back each and every time during the Year That Never Was. For the first time in a while he's where he feels he belongs, he's got the closest thing to a family around him, and all of a sudden it's being threatened. Poor Jack.
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Date: 2008-02-07 01:47 am (UTC)I saw the scene in the warehouse differently. To me it seemed that Jack didn't want Ianto trapped and useless along with the rest of them (and stop the "villains" from escaping while he was at it; and what a stellar job he did too!). I actually thought someone was going to be squished, but thankfully no one got made into fillet.
But it could've been my overall happy for the quality of the episode putting blinders on me. :P
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Date: 2008-02-07 01:58 am (UTC)Hehe, I think everyone has their own spin on that warehouse scenes - it's brilliant, meta was made for eps like this where everything gets reinterpreted and rejudged every post :)
I think my problem is that when it comes to those two, I am an old-fashioned Mills & Boon-esque romantic. I wanted at least one moment of Jack looking concerned that his current partner was facing the wrong end of the gun. And actually on rewatch I got that moment so colour me contented. Also on rewatch I went back to being realistic: Jack is the veteran, of course he isn't going to show weakness when being threatened. I think I'll need to rewatch again (oh the trauma) to see what you're suggesting. At the very least, what I did like was Jack's implied utter trust and faith in Ianto's abilities in the field. He believes Ianto will be able to take care of himself, and also that Ianto is quite capable on his own of getting straight back up and taking care of escaping 'villains'. Which is actually something quite complimentary considering how Ianto started the ep as the teaboy/archivist/receptionist.
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Date: 2008-02-07 02:39 am (UTC)Meta is great. I always end up reading all the reviews, which usually is very enlightening. :)
Jack's implied utter trust and faith in Ianto's abilities in the field
Yep, that's what does it for me. It needs a rewatch, but, as you said, Jack looked... pained when he couldn't quite get a clean shot when Ianto was fighting for the gun with the other guy. This season has just been stellar, probably in large part due to Ianto getting treated right. Aaaaahh, next episode's teaser trailer has made me very excited; serial killer Ianto?!!
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Date: 2008-02-07 03:16 am (UTC)Next week's trailer - EEEEEEEEE!! I am so looking forward to seeing GDL play a bit more with Ianto's mean streak, the warehouse showed he can do it despite the emo!belly!rats of series 1. God bless Torchwood, some eps are just crack!fanfic ideas brought to life :)