::raspberry::
Jan. 27th, 2008 10:07 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
lonelybritSo I was happily geeking out and re-watching Sleeper to try and get a handle on just how we were supposed to be reading certain character's actions/behaviours/etc. In particular, yes, one aspect would involve Mr Jones. And I had just reached that part when the little lightbulb went 'BING!' in my brain and I was all set to do a lovely piece of meta when I looked online to discover that the ep's writer (James Moran) had already clarified it for us on his blog.
Bless him - it seems he is one of those souls who will seek out and read every review. And he will care. In his words as to why he does this:
He even went and read every entry over on Outpost Gallifrey. DUDE. Serious balls there, even I'm scared of OG.
Okay, so technically I am still a little puzzled as to how Ianto's humour suddenly became so unavoidable, as in pretty much every line was a quip. I'm not complaining though.
To be fair, odd's are we never really saw the 'real' Ianto last season. Initially he was playing safe whilst he looked after Lisa. And then I think he spent the rest of the season piecing himself back together and, using GDL's own words, being rather depressed. In short, up until Sleeper, we've never actually seen him when he's been unequivocally grounded and content with his lot. Last week (Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang) Ianto had obviously found his place within the team but it was also clear that they and he were still missing Jack. Add Jack back into the mix, and in particular a Jack who is prepared to let Ianto know exactly where he (and Torchwood) stand, and theoretically that would leave Ianto pretty much more calm and sure of himself than at any point last series. So who knows, maybe Ianto Jones of Torchwood 1 was the local joker, in which case Sleeper was the first time we're beginning to see how he really used to be. Or what he's developed into.
Another theory could also be that given how Ianto will at some nearish point in the future have 'a meltdown', the writers are building him up as more obviously happy and unflappable so that when the meltdown comes it is all the more dramatic. The higher up you are, the longer and harder you fall and all that.
Alternatively, it could also be completely ignored next week and we can just add it to the list of examples of slightly shaky character continuity within Torchwood.
As for whether or not I think it's a particularly nice sense of humour. Well, when I first watched Sleeper one of my thoughts was that Ianto seemed more unmoved than the rest of the team about Beth's plight. His one-liners initially seemed rather cold and a little chilling given he was making jokes at the same time as this young woman was having her life torn apart and destroyed. On second viewing? Firstly, it's not just Ianto. Owen too was very clinical, whereas Gwen and Tosh showed more emotional reaction to what was going on. And also on second viewing, I realised that in both cases I wasn't surprised. Owen has been with Torchwood some time, and also Owen is a doctor and if there's one place you have to learn to be able to detach and be dispassionate, it's in medicine.
As for Ianto... well, as![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
princess_s pointed out, he did start off in Torchwood 1. And Torchwood 1 would have recruited him using the criteria set by Yvonne Hartman. He's a survivor of old-school Torchwood, the Torchwood the Doctor really wasn't a fan of. I suppose we shouldn't be surprised that he can be quite unmoved by the whole interrogation process.
Oh, and my 'BING!' moment was during the chair scene. You see Owen, Ianto and Jack bringing out all the equipment. Tosh alerts the audience that this is potentially nasty equipment, and then Ianto, even as he carries out Jack's orders, reminds Jack that the mindprobe caused heads to explode. He doesn't look or sound particularly impressed that Jack knows this and is carrying on, and all of a sudden, that was when the penny dropped. Ianto isn't trying to be funny as such; he's obeying orders but the continued barbed jokes and jibes are aimed at Jack to make him uncomfortable and deal with the fact that Ianto doesn't think this is a good idea and isn't happy. I've watched the siblings use the same techniques on me and the parents and each other when they know they've lost the argument but are still pissed. (Though, even with this, I'd still say Ianto is a cool one. He's peeved that Jack is going to use a messy technique that will probably not work and also kill their only lead. I don't think he's pissed and thinks Jack should be treating Beth more gently, that's Gwen's connection, not his.)
Or, as Moran put it, far far more succinctly: "Ianto was using dark humour in the chair scene to keep reminding/guilt-tripping Jack that this was a really, really bad idea and something they shouldn't be doing, not because he was making fun of the situation..."
Oh, and I found another Ianto favourite quote: "It's almost obscene what you do to security systems."
And I still love Owen.
Yes, I've spent my day wisely and productively, can't you tell :)
Bless him - it seems he is one of those souls who will seek out and read every review. And he will care. In his words as to why he does this:
"I'm a f**king writer. Most of us desperately crave love, unconditional love, from *everyone*. Give us a billion good reviews and one slightly sniffy comment, and we'll obsess about the sniffy one for months. We'll have that bastard *memorised*. I can still quote you the bad reviews Severance got, word for word. I can't for the life of me remember a single phrase from a good one."
He even went and read every entry over on Outpost Gallifrey. DUDE. Serious balls there, even I'm scared of OG.
Okay, so technically I am still a little puzzled as to how Ianto's humour suddenly became so unavoidable, as in pretty much every line was a quip. I'm not complaining though.
To be fair, odd's are we never really saw the 'real' Ianto last season. Initially he was playing safe whilst he looked after Lisa. And then I think he spent the rest of the season piecing himself back together and, using GDL's own words, being rather depressed. In short, up until Sleeper, we've never actually seen him when he's been unequivocally grounded and content with his lot. Last week (Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang) Ianto had obviously found his place within the team but it was also clear that they and he were still missing Jack. Add Jack back into the mix, and in particular a Jack who is prepared to let Ianto know exactly where he (and Torchwood) stand, and theoretically that would leave Ianto pretty much more calm and sure of himself than at any point last series. So who knows, maybe Ianto Jones of Torchwood 1 was the local joker, in which case Sleeper was the first time we're beginning to see how he really used to be. Or what he's developed into.
Another theory could also be that given how Ianto will at some nearish point in the future have 'a meltdown', the writers are building him up as more obviously happy and unflappable so that when the meltdown comes it is all the more dramatic. The higher up you are, the longer and harder you fall and all that.
Alternatively, it could also be completely ignored next week and we can just add it to the list of examples of slightly shaky character continuity within Torchwood.
As for whether or not I think it's a particularly nice sense of humour. Well, when I first watched Sleeper one of my thoughts was that Ianto seemed more unmoved than the rest of the team about Beth's plight. His one-liners initially seemed rather cold and a little chilling given he was making jokes at the same time as this young woman was having her life torn apart and destroyed. On second viewing? Firstly, it's not just Ianto. Owen too was very clinical, whereas Gwen and Tosh showed more emotional reaction to what was going on. And also on second viewing, I realised that in both cases I wasn't surprised. Owen has been with Torchwood some time, and also Owen is a doctor and if there's one place you have to learn to be able to detach and be dispassionate, it's in medicine.
As for Ianto... well, as
princess_s pointed out, he did start off in Torchwood 1. And Torchwood 1 would have recruited him using the criteria set by Yvonne Hartman. He's a survivor of old-school Torchwood, the Torchwood the Doctor really wasn't a fan of. I suppose we shouldn't be surprised that he can be quite unmoved by the whole interrogation process.Oh, and my 'BING!' moment was during the chair scene. You see Owen, Ianto and Jack bringing out all the equipment. Tosh alerts the audience that this is potentially nasty equipment, and then Ianto, even as he carries out Jack's orders, reminds Jack that the mindprobe caused heads to explode. He doesn't look or sound particularly impressed that Jack knows this and is carrying on, and all of a sudden, that was when the penny dropped. Ianto isn't trying to be funny as such; he's obeying orders but the continued barbed jokes and jibes are aimed at Jack to make him uncomfortable and deal with the fact that Ianto doesn't think this is a good idea and isn't happy. I've watched the siblings use the same techniques on me and the parents and each other when they know they've lost the argument but are still pissed. (Though, even with this, I'd still say Ianto is a cool one. He's peeved that Jack is going to use a messy technique that will probably not work and also kill their only lead. I don't think he's pissed and thinks Jack should be treating Beth more gently, that's Gwen's connection, not his.)
Or, as Moran put it, far far more succinctly: "Ianto was using dark humour in the chair scene to keep reminding/guilt-tripping Jack that this was a really, really bad idea and something they shouldn't be doing, not because he was making fun of the situation..."
Oh, and I found another Ianto favourite quote: "It's almost obscene what you do to security systems."
And I still love Owen.
Yes, I've spent my day wisely and productively, can't you tell :)
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no subject
Date: 2008-01-27 11:14 pm (UTC)In reference to Ianto's humor showing, it harkens back to a line sort of half heard the first time Jack is back in the Hub in KKBB. When Gwen calls for Ianto as she's doing all the admin leading (as opposed to Owen who did the in the field leading if you ask me :P), he makes a joke as to what to do with the body and offers the option of making sushi. A somewhat freaky visual of chopping up blowfish man (also usually a poisonous dish that can only be served when prepared by VERY skilled cooks) but also a hint at the dark prodding humor that we see in Sleepers.
I like what James Moran said though as it makes a lot of sense that this is him flailing the big warning flag rather than just hemming and hawing off to the side where he could more easily be dismissed. His bzzzzzt moment got notice from both Jack and Owen, unnerving both of them (even Owen gave Ianto the head shake and eye glare of 'wtf was that') from brushing off this somewhat serious procedure.
Just my few cents! And that sounds like a rather productive day to me!
no subject
Date: 2008-01-27 11:32 pm (UTC)Yep, definitely agree with that. I liked how the duties were shared between them all, and Owen and Gwen were clearly easy and clear on who was taking the lead in each type of situation. Good teamwork :)
And yes, in hindsight, that's a good point with the blowfish/sushi remark. I like to think that Ianto does have a genuine slightly darker streak to his personality than we might have previously realised and that the writers are deliberately allowing this to show and are not just playing with their new snark machine.
I liked how Ianto was getting disapproving looks from all the team, even Owen. It really wasn't being done to try and be funny, it was making sure Jack couldn't escape how much of a bad idea the whole thing was. As I said, I was so proud of myself having figured it out to my own satisfaction, only to see Moran had managed to do the same thing for me in far fewer words. Typical ;)
no subject
Date: 2008-01-27 11:46 pm (UTC)I agree with this: Moran's blog also made it clearer. It's worth bearing in mind that ianto's default setting now, in the workplace, is "loyalty to Jack above all" and so the way he's reminding Jack of scary interrogations, exploding heads and distressing pain are all necessarily subtle. I don't think it's his way to challenge Jack directly, as we know Gwen does frequently and the others sometimes, depending on circumstance. It would be confrontational in front of the rest of them too: not Ianto's style. I thought it was notable that it was Gwen who went at it with Jack right at the start of KKBB, and Owen and Tosh were physically right there with her: ianto hung back, literally - he was standing half a step away down from the others, and the only question that he was willing to ask at that point was not "where have you been?", or "why did you go?" or even "are you changed?" - it was "are you staying?"
As for the rest of the Ianto-snarkage, I guess that all tallied up with the Ianto in my head who's always had a quick tongue (no, not like that you pervert! well, maybe...) and just had all the reasons in the world to keep it buttoned up for most of the first season. In the absence of Jack, and the necessity of being out and about with the others, growing more confident about that and being treated as more of an equal (and less of an enigma) by them, he's become more relaxed about saying what he's thinking.
With Jack, he barely said a word until their conversation in the office - I think he was waiting until then, and fairly obviously a bit keyed-up, to see how Jack was going to treat him. Now he knows that there's a division, in effect: work is work and he's not just fulfilling a role as the boss's office shag, so he's more confident about his work status and that makes him more secure, and more lippy. And he also has that assurance he never had before - that Jack, OMG, *does* care for him in a decidedly not part-time way. Whether they've done anything about that by now or not, almost doesn't matter - the important thing for Ianto is that he's secure, he's needed and wanted and he might even be loved - that possibility is open to him now. I'm almost surprised he wasn't perching on the railings and singing warbling songs of joy!
I also think the Ep 5 business is relevant, like you say - set him up high, knock him over. I don't actually think the 'meltdown' is going to be a full-on thing, the sense I had was that this was just about him losing his composure rather than his marbles. But either way, that's going to be dramatically more satisfying if he's been a shiny happy boy for the eps leading up to it.
And now, only a few days until what the Observer apparently termed "bouts of slobbery snogging that don't enhance the plot". To which I say YAY! The more slobbery snoggage the better. And the rest.
no subject
Date: 2008-01-28 12:28 am (UTC)Yep, exactly. He'll be Jack's loyal soldier, even when he disagrees. In the chair scene he never stopped putting the equipment together even as he was reminding Jack how badly wrong it could all go.
Although he's clearly quite happy to take Jack on when things have quietened down and Jack has just returned trashed equipment to the Hub.
I am still so full of love for that office scene. We have two guys who are normally never lost for words, both being so uselessly and typically male and utterly failing to tackle an issue head-on. And yet they somehow managed it, it really was done entirely in subtext ♥♥♥
And yes. I think frankly Sleeper has to been the happiest we have ever seen Ianto. Both work and personal life are miles better than they were at any time last season. The office scene was probably above and beyond anything Ianto was realistically letting himself hope for, but he got it nevertheless.
As you say, I don't get the impression this 'meltdown' is going to be as huge as say 'Cyberwoman', but it's obviously going to be drastic enough to be termed as such in comparison to his normal behaviour. I almost feel bad that I get so happily excited that the emo!belly!rats haven't been completely forgotten :)
...what the Observer apparently termed "bouts of slobbery snogging that don't enhance the plot".
They say that like it's a bad thing. Pfft. Clearly some folks will just never get the true meaning of Torchwood *shakes head*