Torchwood - 'They Keep Killing...'
Dec. 7th, 2006 02:05 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
lonelybritSo today as always me and two mates settled down with icecream to watch the terrestrial repeat of Torchwood. I think M_ partially enjoys it and would watch it without us, but A_ I know only watches it because it's a nice weekly social. So to sum up the general gist of our reactions to the ep, as the credits rolled...
A_: You know... that was actually really good.
First off, though I'm useless and can't remember her name, the actress who plays Suzie blew all the others out the water. She was superb and we all agreed that the reason this ep felt so good was because of her. She got us to really feel for Suzie; she slightly creeped us out, she made us sympathetic for her, and her final scenes with Jack and Gwen were brilliant. It is a genuine shame they can't bring her back full-time, though I guess they would then run the risk of her stealing Barrowman's thunder as leading man.
Also, the concept of The Risen Mitten? Grade A. What a plot device - the fun that could be had with it. So so glad they put in that line to leave open the possibility of some kind of return.
THAT SAID. The writing and dialogue were still at times painful. The plot-holes and general 'Huh?'-induced moments were as frequent as ever. The difference this time was that the acting was good enough to almost make you not realise. What Suzie said was so heartfelt and so convincing that it was only afterwards you realised that it actually made little sense and in fact the whole plot was just hokey.
So, onto the characters/institutions:
Swanson: I really liked this character, her showing us how the police resent feeling like they're either just there to clear up after Torchwood or just stay out the way altogether. If we can't have Suzie back, at least let them bring back Swanson as a semi-recurring. And the whole scene of her and Jack on the phone (It's not funny!) was a definite episode highlight. I did like that whilst she mocked them, she had picked up that there was a genuine need, and though the whole police team paused to hear Jack's humiliation - she had already sent someone out to buy the required poetry book. Good time management :)
Torchwood: Jeez, they really take no prisoners do they? Suzie got consumed by the glove, became a serial murderer, betrayed them, and as far as Torchwood is concerned that's the end of the story. Suzie is no longer Torchwood, she's not genuinely alive, and they show no qualms in killing her again in order to preserve their current team. It's cold and brutal and I guess just what the Doctor didn't like about TW 1 in the Christmas ep.
Suzie: Despite the fact that the whole 'She's planned this since forever' thing just didn't make sense, Suzie still managed to gain more character in one ep than any of the rest of the team in eight. This was definitely more thanks to the acting than the dialogue she was given. I liked the hint of her and Owen having a past, I seriously doubt it was ever romantic as they both strike me as the kind of folks who could easily have a one-night stand just to work off the frustration. But you did get the impression she was increasingly aware that she had fallen from grace, and that it was down to the glove. The scene between her and Tosh was too short, but nicely underplayed by both. She was genuinely frightened of death, she easily played Gwen, but in the end Gwen's easy compassion did get to her - a rather sad indication that she never felt something like that from her previous work-mates.
Jack: Not much to say really. He clearly lives in the now and doesn't dwell on past sentimentality (or at least he tries to). He has written off Suzie; she betrayed the team, killed innocent civilians, and she died. For him there is no come-back from that and no question that therefore the team's priority is Gwen's welfare above all else. (The way he barely hesitates before shooting her, and doesn't hesitate... but does look torn when she's finally dead.)
To some extent it also partially explains that damn stopwatch moment. As my friend pointed out, yes he gets angry. But he also moves on very quickly. He got pissed at Gwen for using the ghost machine - yet no sign of a grudge now. He was snappy at Tosh when she seemed to blame him for killing Mary - yet again no grudge, and in fact we saw him later trying to offer some kind of comfort. So with Ianto... I think normally that level of betrayal would be utterly inexcusable for Jack, except that Ianto did it for possibly the only reason Jack can understand. Love. Just as he did with Tosh and Gwen, I suppose he really has just moved on from the events of Cyberwoman. (Though, still, honestly...) Suzie betrayed Torchwood, became obsessed, and if it had stopped at that maybe Jack could have accepted her back. But when she deliberately killed humans, that was it for him. Not to mention, er, she died.
Though, to be fair, I like that he does treat who she used to be with more care. 'Tread carefully, people, with respect.' The gung-ho attitude lasted until Suzie was actually dead, and then we saw some of the real emotion. Or at least Ianto did when Jack apologised for not dealing with the body himself.
Ianto: Actually my favourite Ianto development was simply implied, and oddly enough it wasn't the stopwatch conversation. It was the scene where they all watched the videos of the life energy coming out of Gwen into Suzie and the murder victims. Ianto's face just seemed to tell a story - though probably a lot is down to me loving him to pieces anyway, so, biased - and you could just tell who he was thinking of. 'What if...'
It's implied in the episode, but confirmed in the IM transcripts on the TW.org.uk site - something for which I'm very thankful. Was Ianto thinking of the (second) glove? Maybe. Was he thinking of the possibility of bringing back Lisa? In a way, yes.
Would he ever use the glove to bring Lisa back? Emphatically no. By this ep, Ianto has accepted that Lisa is dead, and more importantly by the end of this ep, he geniunely seems to have accepted that resurrection would probably end badly. He doesn't want her to come back the way she was when she died (that wasn't her), and he doesn't want to risk her coming back (and becoming) like Suzie. His tummy may be full of emo!rats, but he is actually beginning to move on.
My impression is that Ianto has pretty much thrown himself into Torchwood as a means of dealing with her death. In Cyberwoman he quickly responded with a very emphatic and very angry 'You stay away from them!' when she threatened the team, so he does actually care on some level for them. And then on the TW.org.uk site, we have his notes on the concepts of Cults. There's something in the way he explains how signing up to a cult can seem a great idea because it seems to provide you with security and purpose, and more importantly allows you to avoid facing up to your problems in the real world. For the moment, I think Ianto is utterly loyal to Torchwood, and that would mean incredibly loyal to Jack as the head of the whole operation. Whilst it doesn't explain particularly well that final scene with the stopwatch, it'll have to do for now: Oh no, Head of TW is moping, moping bad for the team, do whatever's needed to keep him on track. *shrugs*
Gwen: Christ she can be a bit daft, can't she? Though again, the acting made me more sympathetic to the character than I might have been. She's overly sentimental, but she does mean well.
Owen: I like his honesty. 'You scare the shit out of me, yeah.' He shows more emotion than the others regarding Suzie. Even if he didn't love her, he clearly cared enough to feel extreme dislike for the glove that destroyed her and to be creeped out by the person she became as a result. Also nice scene in the cells. 'You're the boss.' When the shit really hits the fans, Owen will let Jack take charge without arguing.
I also like his continued show of care for Gwen - rushing to her when she collapsed in the morgue, and again managing to be genuinely comforting on the pier.
Toshiko: She didn't get to do much this ep, did she? You did get the impression that of the old team, she had been the closest to Suzie. Not that that's saying much. But it was a nice insight into her view of her work. She mentioned in Countrycide that the danger is worth it to protect people. And she really does believe it, she believes in Torchwood, or did until Suzie managed to sully its name. Very Tosh that that aspect of the betrayal seemed to wound her more than the betrayal of any actual personal friendship.
...
*sigh* And okay, yes. The shallow Jack/Ianto fangirl in me is highly entertained. In an interview, RTD says how he put in a line that was deliberately left ambiguous. After the sript had been handed out, he was approached by one of the actors who asked him if A was supposed to be sleeping with B. RTD's answer was generally: 'Not going to tell you, it's up to you.'
Well, considering the way Barrowman and David-Lloyd have played it so far, I'd say it seems they've definitely made up their own minds on how to read the stopwatch scene :)
A_: You know... that was actually really good.
First off, though I'm useless and can't remember her name, the actress who plays Suzie blew all the others out the water. She was superb and we all agreed that the reason this ep felt so good was because of her. She got us to really feel for Suzie; she slightly creeped us out, she made us sympathetic for her, and her final scenes with Jack and Gwen were brilliant. It is a genuine shame they can't bring her back full-time, though I guess they would then run the risk of her stealing Barrowman's thunder as leading man.
Also, the concept of The Risen Mitten? Grade A. What a plot device - the fun that could be had with it. So so glad they put in that line to leave open the possibility of some kind of return.
THAT SAID. The writing and dialogue were still at times painful. The plot-holes and general 'Huh?'-induced moments were as frequent as ever. The difference this time was that the acting was good enough to almost make you not realise. What Suzie said was so heartfelt and so convincing that it was only afterwards you realised that it actually made little sense and in fact the whole plot was just hokey.
So, onto the characters/institutions:
Swanson: I really liked this character, her showing us how the police resent feeling like they're either just there to clear up after Torchwood or just stay out the way altogether. If we can't have Suzie back, at least let them bring back Swanson as a semi-recurring. And the whole scene of her and Jack on the phone (It's not funny!) was a definite episode highlight. I did like that whilst she mocked them, she had picked up that there was a genuine need, and though the whole police team paused to hear Jack's humiliation - she had already sent someone out to buy the required poetry book. Good time management :)
Torchwood: Jeez, they really take no prisoners do they? Suzie got consumed by the glove, became a serial murderer, betrayed them, and as far as Torchwood is concerned that's the end of the story. Suzie is no longer Torchwood, she's not genuinely alive, and they show no qualms in killing her again in order to preserve their current team. It's cold and brutal and I guess just what the Doctor didn't like about TW 1 in the Christmas ep.
Suzie: Despite the fact that the whole 'She's planned this since forever' thing just didn't make sense, Suzie still managed to gain more character in one ep than any of the rest of the team in eight. This was definitely more thanks to the acting than the dialogue she was given. I liked the hint of her and Owen having a past, I seriously doubt it was ever romantic as they both strike me as the kind of folks who could easily have a one-night stand just to work off the frustration. But you did get the impression she was increasingly aware that she had fallen from grace, and that it was down to the glove. The scene between her and Tosh was too short, but nicely underplayed by both. She was genuinely frightened of death, she easily played Gwen, but in the end Gwen's easy compassion did get to her - a rather sad indication that she never felt something like that from her previous work-mates.
Jack: Not much to say really. He clearly lives in the now and doesn't dwell on past sentimentality (or at least he tries to). He has written off Suzie; she betrayed the team, killed innocent civilians, and she died. For him there is no come-back from that and no question that therefore the team's priority is Gwen's welfare above all else. (The way he barely hesitates before shooting her, and doesn't hesitate... but does look torn when she's finally dead.)
To some extent it also partially explains that damn stopwatch moment. As my friend pointed out, yes he gets angry. But he also moves on very quickly. He got pissed at Gwen for using the ghost machine - yet no sign of a grudge now. He was snappy at Tosh when she seemed to blame him for killing Mary - yet again no grudge, and in fact we saw him later trying to offer some kind of comfort. So with Ianto... I think normally that level of betrayal would be utterly inexcusable for Jack, except that Ianto did it for possibly the only reason Jack can understand. Love. Just as he did with Tosh and Gwen, I suppose he really has just moved on from the events of Cyberwoman. (Though, still, honestly...) Suzie betrayed Torchwood, became obsessed, and if it had stopped at that maybe Jack could have accepted her back. But when she deliberately killed humans, that was it for him. Not to mention, er, she died.
Though, to be fair, I like that he does treat who she used to be with more care. 'Tread carefully, people, with respect.' The gung-ho attitude lasted until Suzie was actually dead, and then we saw some of the real emotion. Or at least Ianto did when Jack apologised for not dealing with the body himself.
Ianto: Actually my favourite Ianto development was simply implied, and oddly enough it wasn't the stopwatch conversation. It was the scene where they all watched the videos of the life energy coming out of Gwen into Suzie and the murder victims. Ianto's face just seemed to tell a story - though probably a lot is down to me loving him to pieces anyway, so, biased - and you could just tell who he was thinking of. 'What if...'
It's implied in the episode, but confirmed in the IM transcripts on the TW.org.uk site - something for which I'm very thankful. Was Ianto thinking of the (second) glove? Maybe. Was he thinking of the possibility of bringing back Lisa? In a way, yes.
Would he ever use the glove to bring Lisa back? Emphatically no. By this ep, Ianto has accepted that Lisa is dead, and more importantly by the end of this ep, he geniunely seems to have accepted that resurrection would probably end badly. He doesn't want her to come back the way she was when she died (that wasn't her), and he doesn't want to risk her coming back (and becoming) like Suzie. His tummy may be full of emo!rats, but he is actually beginning to move on.
My impression is that Ianto has pretty much thrown himself into Torchwood as a means of dealing with her death. In Cyberwoman he quickly responded with a very emphatic and very angry 'You stay away from them!' when she threatened the team, so he does actually care on some level for them. And then on the TW.org.uk site, we have his notes on the concepts of Cults. There's something in the way he explains how signing up to a cult can seem a great idea because it seems to provide you with security and purpose, and more importantly allows you to avoid facing up to your problems in the real world. For the moment, I think Ianto is utterly loyal to Torchwood, and that would mean incredibly loyal to Jack as the head of the whole operation. Whilst it doesn't explain particularly well that final scene with the stopwatch, it'll have to do for now: Oh no, Head of TW is moping, moping bad for the team, do whatever's needed to keep him on track. *shrugs*
Gwen: Christ she can be a bit daft, can't she? Though again, the acting made me more sympathetic to the character than I might have been. She's overly sentimental, but she does mean well.
Owen: I like his honesty. 'You scare the shit out of me, yeah.' He shows more emotion than the others regarding Suzie. Even if he didn't love her, he clearly cared enough to feel extreme dislike for the glove that destroyed her and to be creeped out by the person she became as a result. Also nice scene in the cells. 'You're the boss.' When the shit really hits the fans, Owen will let Jack take charge without arguing.
I also like his continued show of care for Gwen - rushing to her when she collapsed in the morgue, and again managing to be genuinely comforting on the pier.
Toshiko: She didn't get to do much this ep, did she? You did get the impression that of the old team, she had been the closest to Suzie. Not that that's saying much. But it was a nice insight into her view of her work. She mentioned in Countrycide that the danger is worth it to protect people. And she really does believe it, she believes in Torchwood, or did until Suzie managed to sully its name. Very Tosh that that aspect of the betrayal seemed to wound her more than the betrayal of any actual personal friendship.
...
*sigh* And okay, yes. The shallow Jack/Ianto fangirl in me is highly entertained. In an interview, RTD says how he put in a line that was deliberately left ambiguous. After the sript had been handed out, he was approached by one of the actors who asked him if A was supposed to be sleeping with B. RTD's answer was generally: 'Not going to tell you, it's up to you.'
Well, considering the way Barrowman and David-Lloyd have played it so far, I'd say it seems they've definitely made up their own minds on how to read the stopwatch scene :)
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no subject
Date: 2006-12-07 11:51 am (UTC)I'm not sure I agree with you on Ianto, I get the impression that he's
someone who could hold a grudge for centuries without ever seeming unprofessional. I mean who expected him to act the way he did in cyberwoman, before the situation forced him to show his hand. I reckon that when the opportunity arises he will shiv Jack in the back.
no subject
Date: 2006-12-08 02:52 am (UTC)But since then I've come to accept that actually this series really isn't very good, and the writing does tend to be all over the shop. There are plotholes, timeline discrepencies, and the way the characters change each week would make baby jesus cry. So whilst I'm hoping Ianto's vow of vengeance won't be completely forgotten, I'm resigning myself to the fact that the writers probably just put that in at the time as a way to show that 'YAY! Ianto's really really angry! But don't worry it's only in the heat of the moment and won't be taken in consideration ever again.'
no subject
Date: 2006-12-08 11:47 am (UTC)Lets suppose for a minute that it's not just been randomly forgotten, does the stopwatch scene still work? I'd argue yes. Ianto had plenty of opportunities to avenge himself on Jack, but hasn't, the only reason for this would be he knows about Jacks immortality. Given this he would know he needs to identify a weakness and it's a lot easier to find an opponents weakness when you work & sleep with him than if you quit your job and spend no time around them.
If you don't believe me come and work and sleep with me and see if you know more of my weaknesses afterwards :P